At the foot of Hambalang Hill in Bogor, West Java is Prabowo Subianto's home, which, at a glance, resembles an army post. The outer gates are guarded by four uniformed men standing at attention when they are not checking visitors coming to visit the chairman of the Great Indonesia Movement (Gerindra) party. From the entrance, the visitor drives up a winding uphill road, rows of hot chili bushes adorning both sides.

The second gate, 200 meters away, is guarded by a pair of uniformed men, standing ready to usher cars in. They salute very crisply when the visitor's car passes by. The road to the main building passes a helipad on one side and a plot of grassland, where horses graze contentedly, on the other side. In the background is a vista of hills, partly covered by clouds.

Prabowo, a former Special Forces (Kopassus) commander, purchased the 34 hectares of land located just 30 minutes from the Sentul tollgate in 2001, three years after he was dismissed from the military on charges of having ordered the kidnapping of activists. He built his 'hideaway' a bit later, in 2004. Inside the house is a prominently placed library and outside is a swimming pool, a pendopo or pavilion made of teakwood and a stable for more than a dozen horses.

"I'm like a knight who goes into a retreat when he is not needed," said Prabowo, welcoming the Tempo team for a special interview, last week. "And knights usually head to the hills like this place for solitude." With Prabowo are a number of young men whom he calls the "Jedi Knights", a take from the epic film Star Wars. "These young men are all smart, graduates from overseas schools," he explained.

Earlier, on October 9, Prabowo had visited the Tempo editorial office. At first he appeared stiff and uncomfortable, bringing with him his own coffee beverage and an assortment of snacks. His aide laid a damp hand towel on a small dish on the table, within reach of Prabowo, so he could wipe his face from time to time. During the first 30 minutes he aired his misgivings over the media's treatment of him, which he saw as always trying to corner him. However, after three hours of dialogue, lightened by some humorous comments, he became more relaxed.

At the second meeting in his home Prabowo was more articulate in responding to sensitive questions, like the abductions of activists in the 1997-98 period, his commitment to democracy, his well-known bursts of temper and rumors of impending wedding bells. Back in 1998, he and his then-wife Siti Hediati Hariyadi, a daughter of the late Suharto, divorced not long after the New Order president was ousted from power. The following interview is extracted from the two meetings.

Why do you feel you are fit to be president?

After 68 years of independence, 32 years under the New Order and 16 years of reformasi, Indonesia seems to be stuck in the wrong system. We have not become a productive nation, but a consumptive one. In fact, we have been neglecting the farmers, who have contributed most to Indonesia. They have been made unwilling to produce. We import our onions, cassava, salted fish, salt, even though two-thirds of our territory covers the sea. This is an insult, shameful. And I want to change this.

Could this system be attributed to the SBY government?

Oh, no. It was already like that during the middle of the New Order. This is the mistake of all of us. But the New Order, which many consider to be bad, banned the export of logs. After the onset of reforms and a free market system, logs were allowed to be exported. Before, all exports of rattan were banned, as well as their processing. All natural resources are now controlled by the elite and foreigners.

You yourself own timber and coal companies.

Yes, that's right. That's because if I'm not involved, all of it will be taken over by foreigners. If I take some over, they will be owned by an Indonesian.

Are you anti-foreigner?

I am not against foreigners. I am a product of a foreign [system] but what I accept from the West is life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If white people can own such values why not Indonesians? Why can't we have clean water? Why are people's savings in the banks being channeled out for loans to build malls? And everybody keeps quiet about it. I am not against foreigners. I always tell my staff to learn from foreigners. When I was still active [in the military], I was the only officer who sent many of his staff [to study] overseas.

If you were to become president, what would you do?

The amended Constitution has given the executive branch immense powers. So, if there are cases of taking sides, we must correct that. Take, for example, [the case of] fertilizer. The factories are built with state money, people's money. But each year, the APBN (State Budget) subsidizes fertilizer and its production. But who distributes fertilizer? The private sector. Is that fair? Does that make sense? Those subsidies don't reach the farmers. This is unjust and this applies to all commodities. This is state robbery which benefits only a few people. I think the problem is this neoliberal system, comprising deregulation and privatization.

So, how do you see the role of the private sector?

I'm a practical person. Why can't we emulate those who have succeeded, like Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Japan, China and Taiwan? Why aren't we copying Korea Inc, Singapore Inc, Japan Inc? We shouldn't have the private sector, state-owned enterprises and cooperatives compete against each other. We must synergize, but not sacrifice our own strengths.

At the start of the New Order, it was like that. Bung Karno was like that. But the West doesn't like government rule and dominant state-owned companies. In China, who are in front? State-owned enterprises.

How long will it take us to reach that stage?

The fertilizer problem should just be a matter of paperwork by the Trade Minister, right? All products must be channeled through cooperatives. So, that's the kind of taking sides we need. Today, small and medium businesses need bank loans but they must go through the same criteria as the tycoons. How can people who have nothing get credit?

What are your views on corruption?

Corruption is a disease that can destroy the nation. A regime that cannot control corruption will become a failed state. We must cure the source of the problem. By my calculation, Indonesia has 50,000 to 60,000 government officials from the president to the vice president, 35 ministers and deputy ministers, five directors-general, legislators, district chiefs and down to subdistrict chiefs. If their cost of living was to be guaranteed, I am quite optimistic corruption will decline.

Yet a Constitutional Court judge earning a monthly salary of Rp200 million was found accepting bribes.

My meaning is to have a systemic approach. If the bureaucrat's quality of life is raised, violations will become taboo.

What about human rights?

That is very important. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should be, in my view, the principal. The top [priority] should be the right to live. We must look at human rights in a holistic way, not just the way it's interpreted by the West. The most basic right is that every child must have a tenable life, able to eat. Whoever governs, must guarantee that right.

If you become president, will you prioritize solving Munir's murder?

Why only Munir? I think we should improve our legal system and let the law solve the case.

What do you mean?

It must be resolved through legal channels. But how can you raise the Munir case without resolving other cases like Mesuji? Have you taken up the case of farmers who were evicted from their lands?

We have. Tempo has written extensively on the Mesuji case.

Well, that's good.

What is your commitment towards democracy, for example in facing a noisy opposition, a free media and activists?

I find your question quite strange. My commitment to what? What guarantees do people want from me? I have proven my commitment to the UUD (Constitution). If you recall that in 1968, I led 34 battalions. Physically, I was the strongest in Indonesia. I was accused of planning a coup, so I was fired by the President, but I obeyed him without protest. That meant I proved my commitment to the UUD. For me, it's an oath.

So, you will not muzzle the opposition?

Activists and those who regarded me as part of the New Order regime said I was militaristic, fascist, blah blah blah. Today, pro-democracy activists are members of Gerindra, holding significant positions. They are chairmen, candidates [for office] in strategic regions. The son of an OPM (Free Papua Movement) member is part of Gerindra, as well as the son of [late rebel] Kartosoewirjo.

You are firm but your temper is legendary. Is it true you used to smash handphones when you were mad?

In the biographies of CEOs and generals, don't they ever get angry?

Are you saying, it's typical of you?

Look, I used to lead combat units. I called my troops tigers. We trained them to be predators. Imagine if I had been weak. There's a saying: 1,000 tigers led by a goat would all be bleating. (Prabowo repeated his reply during the interview at his home, saying it in an effeminate way that caused his staff to burst out laughing.)

So you are ferocious not because of your military background?

Being a military leader is both easy and hard. The men have weapons. If I misled them, what would happen to them in the jungle? How many leaders lost their subordinates? [That happened] with the Americans in Vietnam. So, in leading an army, we must really lead from the front. In the TNI (Indonesian Military), the troops hate commanders who steal, who are corrupt or who are cowards.

Prabowo also addressed to rumors that he held Habibie hostage during the 1998 incident, spoke about being "banned" from entering the United States and shared his view on Joko Widodo's overtaking his popularity at the polls. The complete interview can be found on the printed edition of this week's Tempo English magazine.