TEMPO.CO, Jakarta - Thomas Andrews urges countries to help rein in the Myanmar crisis. What measures have the ASEAN and the UN Security Council taken?

THOMAS Andrews saw firsthand the turmoil of the 1998 Reformasi in Indonesia. The United Nations Special Rapporteur on the human rights situation in Myanmar was in Jakarta at that time as waves of student protests swept through the streets. He saw mothers, grandmothers, and taxi drivers bring water to the protestors. “I (remember thinking) these kids are going to win. They have strong basic support.” Andrews recounted at the UN Office in Jakarta on June 20.

Thomas Andrews observed the same phenomena in Myanmar in 2021 when young people took to the streets to defy the coup led by the military leader Sr. Gen. Min Aung Hlaing. Those youths, Andrews added, had taken great risks. “This gives me some hope,” he said. “But they need the international community’s help.”

To this end, Andrews has been traveling around the world to meet various parties pushing them to help tackle the Myanmar crisis. During his nine-day visit to Indonesia, he met with Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi, ASEAN (Association of Southeast Nations) officials, and various human rights organizations. He also visited Rohingya camps in Aceh.

For over an hour with Tempo reporters, Andrews shed light on Myanmar's worsening conditions, the dilemma Rohingya refugees faced, the ASEAN countries’ stances, and the reluctance of the UN Security Council to act.

How do you see the current state of Myanmar?
There are three things enabling the junta to survive, namely money, weapons, and legitimacy. Legitimacy is very important and they are trying to create it. Their goal is to try to project to the world and to the people in Myanmar that ‘Like us or not, we are here to stay and we are the legitimate representative of Myanmar. We are the legitimate government of Myanmar.’ It is really important for the international community to do whatever it can to deny them the opportunity of projecting this false image.

That’s why the Myanmar people are fighting back?
The people of Myanmar are resisting and they are taking great risks. I asked a young Myanmar man why he took great risks. I said, “You could be among the 19,000 political prisoners now. Why are you doing this?” And he said, “My grandmother, my mother told me about what life was like. I’d rather (fight to) taste the freedom of access to the world, the freedom to express and hope for a brighter future, and so forth. I’m not going back to what my mother and my grandmother described as past conditions and I would do everything to not go back there.” And this kind of number one strong support to oppose the junta, and support for democracy, combined with the movement by young people will make this work. It gives me some hope, but they need the international community’s help. They need us.

Your report mentioned that certain countries are still supplying weapons to the junta. What are their responses?
I wrote two parts. First on the roles of member states, and the second part focused on the private sector and their roles. In the first report, I identified the three largest sources of weapons and weapon technology for the junta. They are Russia, China, and Serbia. Serbia was very upset and said, "This is not true. The report is not accurate". So, we sent the sections of the report to the entities mentioned in the report so that they could see the report was well prepared. I asked them to tell us if they needed more explanation and that they had the right to take anything out, or if they had any contacts or any important information to be included to make it clearer. We double-checked and told them, “Please tell us what we missed or why the information is inaccurate, and give us your sources.” They responded but didn’t offer any proof of how or where we were wrong. After that report was published, Serbia stopped providing weapons to the junta. That’s a very positive step.

Networks in Russia, Singapore, and India are also reportedly supplying weapons.
I can't tell you who they are and what has been happening. But I can tell you that there are governments mentioned in the report. Our mission is to stop arms supplies (to the junta), and help them in any way. I am working with some governments and providing them with information. Some governments in fact informed me that they had initiated an investigation. They want to check everything. I will fully cooperate with them. We would stop it at all costs.

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What about Singapore?
There is no evidence of Singapore sending weapons to Myanmar and there is no evidence of Singapore being involved. What we found was that Singapore-based companies were transferring materials that can be used in manufacturing weapons and we linked those materials to specific weapons that are manufactured in Myanmar.

What is Singapore’s response?
We want this report to be a resource for all countries, including those who were named, and we have been in communication with Singapore to make sure that they know that we want to be of help to them.

How many areas are controlled by the junta at the moment?
It is not very clear. I can say with confidence that the junta has no control over the entire country and in fact, there is significant evidence that they only control half the country. We have different analyses. I mean, we have to be careful about what we say. If we say the junta does not control a certain area, it doesn’t necessarily mean that it is controlled by the PDF (People’s Defense Force), right? What we can say is that based on the evidence I’ve seen; they are losing ground. As a result, they deployed increasing air power to attack villages because air power allows them to strike indiscriminately and kill innocent people. We often talk about these statistics of who controls what percentage, but these are real human beings, real families.

(PDF is an armed wing of the National Unity Government (NUG), Myanmar’s shadow government formed by members of Aung San Suu Kyi’s National League for Democracy.)

What did you do as a special rapporteur?
We try to document and report (the conditions) to the Human Rights Council and the UN General Assembly because this has become an invisible crisis. We know that at least 3,600 innocent people have been killed. There are around 19,000 political prisoners. We know that 58,000 homes, schools, and clinics have been destroyed by the junta. We know that nearly half the country is falling apart and it is getting worse. We are tracking these numbers as best as we can, and reporting them to HRC and GA. We are focusing on the real-life impact behind these numbers.

Read the Full Interview in Tempo English Magazine