TEMPO.CO, Jakarta - The race to the 2024 presidency has been heating up since the end of last year. The National Democrat (NasDem) Party’s nomination of Jakarta Governor Anies Baswedan has caused cracks in Surya Paloh’s relationship with President Joko Widodo. In the 2014 and 2019 elections, NasDem was the first to declare its support for Jokowi, and now Surya Paloh has launched the same maneuver by swiftly announcing its backing for non-partisan candidate Anies Baswedan.

The rift between the two leaders was apparent when NasDem was not invited to a gathering at the State Palace on May 2 although the party was still in the government coalition with three of its cadres still serving as cabinet ministers. Jokowi said he did not invite NasDem because the party already had “a coalition over there.”

When he was asked about his current relationship with Jokowi after nominating Anies Baswedan as a presidential candidate, Surya Paloh pointed to a corner of his office on the 20th floor of the NasDem Tower in Menteng, Central Jakarta. “Whose statue do you see?” It was a statue of Jokowi squatting with the left hand holding his chin. That was how Surya Paloh described his closeness to Jokowi.

During an almost two-hour long interview with Tempo, he answered questions surrounding the issues of the reshuffle within the party, pressure on his businesses after his relationship with Jokowi turned sour as well as political ‘dowry’ by regional heads.

Is it true that NasDem wasn’t invited to the Palace?

Yes. The president told reporters, “I deliberately didn’t invite them. They already have a coalition over there. This is about the coalition’s business. Do they have to know what strategy we are planning?”

What did you make of that statement?

My question is whether I, NasDem, are still in the government coalition or not.

You met with Maritime Affairs and Investment Coordinating Minister Luhut Binsar Pandjaitan on Monday, May 8. Did you discuss your relationship with President?
We did. If possible, we should continue to maintain a cordial relationship.

You said that to Luhut?

Yes. If Mr. President says, “Where is he? I haven’t seen him talking for a while.” Then we can sit down and talk. It’s not hard for me to say that.

He said “coalition over there” because NasDem nominated Anies Baswedan? Did the president suggest not nominating Anies?

Pak Jokowi never said something like that to me.

Or through an intermediary?

A lot of intermediaries. (But) the president didn’t ask (for it).

You met with Jokowi in January. Was the atmosphere still cordial?
People said he rejected my hug. That is not true. He would usually send me, like an older brother, a senior, off to the ground floor, not just till the door of his office. He still did. So, given these parameters, there wasn’t any change.

You once mentioned that your relationship with Jokowi had turned frosty.

That meeting was in January. Now, it’s May.

No more meetings after that?

No.

You also said that it was fine if the president didn’t need you now. That was a very strong message.

A very strong statement with a moral message. (But) it wasn’t a battle call.

Not a threat?

Not at all. (It’s) a moral message.

NasDem also rejected the proposed extension of the presidential term. Which strained your relationship (with Jokowi): Anies’ nomination or the presidential term?

If my analysis is not wrong, the rejection against Anies’ nomination is stronger. There are no other issues causing our relation a bit tense.

Are you interested in fixing it?

I am friends (with him). We meet. I feel we must have mutual respect. If possible, we should preserve existing friendships whether you are still officials or not. That’s more honorable. It means there will be problems if we come with bitterness, anger or vengeance. It’s not fair if we harbor our anger just because we were not invited (to the gathering at the Palace).

Is Jokowi concerned about Anies’ candidacy?

I hope Pak Jokowi is bigger than that. He can be a great leader. When he opens his mind, he also has a huge vision. He must also have a great soul.

Including accepting Anies’ nomination?

Who is Anies actually? Isn’t he an Indonesian citizen? Doesn’t he still have political rights? These two questions are very fundamental questions. Why should we nominate him if his citizenship and political rights have been revoked?

Is it true that you promised Jokowi that Anies would continue Jokowi’s program if he became president?

I think it goes without saying that given the personal understanding of both of us. I want to see good development programs continue but I will make adjustments if they should not be continued. With all the arduous efforts he made, I’m sure President Jokowi has already laid the foundation for the development programs to progress at an accelerated pace. Why can’t we welcome that? Let us not act as if there’s no room for correction. I think we are quite naive.

NasDem is under pressure because the communication minister has had a run-in with the law?

I take it as something normal. There’s an ongoing case at a district attorney’s office. Go ahead. I hope it’s just a purely legal case.

Is there any possibility that it’s not just a legal case?

I hope it’s a pure legal case.

Will NasDem withdraw all of its cabinet members if one of them is dismissed in the reshuffle?

It’s best to maintain trust among us. I hope that more than anything else. Once (the trust) is gone, perhaps it will be extremely difficult. Not all political parties use the same rhythm, model and management data-style. I offer ideas as a party institution that are not necessarily easy for the public to digest, understand, let alone believe. One of the operational implementations that I propose is politics without ‘dowry’. Who believes in that? That means I stand by the rejection (of parties generating) potential revenues of above Rp1 trillion.

Read the Full Interview in Tempo English Magazine