Agus Rahardjo: We need to expose rent-seekers everywhere

TEMPO.CO, Jakarta - Chairman Agus Rahardjo was riveted by the list of US Navy defense equipment, complete with their budget details. The chairman's laptop was accessing the website of the US Navy Secretariat. "Everything that is secret here is very open over there," said Agus, who started his term leading the Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK) in January 2016, in an interview with Tempo last week.

Agus said open access to the US Navy budget details meant corruption on even the smallest item would be noticed. Likewise, he urged citizens to serve as an extension of the KPK to ensure that not a dime of state money goes to corrupt pockets. "Every Indonesian must take part in monitoring," he said. The day before, he spoke with lawmakers at the House of Representatives (DPR) on ensuring the clean use of the state budget.

During the 90-minute interview with Tempo reporters Anton Aprianto, Linda Trianita, Aisha Shaidra, Muhammad Rizki, Reza Maulana and Sapto Yunus, Agus spoke on cases that the KPK is currently investigating, from the alleged bribery of Irman Gusman, the former chair of the Regional Representative Council (DPD), to the Jakarta Bay reclamation case. 

What did you report at the hearing with the DPR members?

I told them that the KPK wanted to initiate changes in the system. Dissemination and prevention of corruption cannot be carried out in the old way anymore. We talk about it, but then all is forgotten. It's like attending a motivation class and crying when we remember our mistakes, but the minute we're done, everything is forgotten again. I want to see a mental revolution. Right after a meeting, let's carry out a new system. All Indonesian citizens must take part in checking and monitoring. That's why the KPK launched its JAGA ('monitor') online application. There's JAGAs for schools, hospitals and licensing. Going forward, a similar application will be developed to monitor general elections, forest management and many more.

Is this application already in operation?

It was soft-launched last July (available on Play Store). The grand launch will be on December 9, the Corruption Eradication Day. Meanwhile, the available data on schools so far only cover junior high and vocational schools. Its function is to ensure the public gets accountable service while internally, management becomes more transparent. Take for example, one problem, where a new school will have one mathematics teacher, yet the budget for it is allocated for development. We can provide feedback from that angle.

So, in your opinion, preventive measures in the past have not been effective? 

We have not yet measured its effectiveness, only the extent of its socialization to push the public into doing something new and different.

What was the emphasis of your discussions at the DPR?

Most interestingly, it was about the open budget system in many countries. I presented examples of the US Navy's website, in which the most minute detail of its budget including the operational needs of its personnel were shown. It included, for example, the M1 Abrams tank, which was dissected all the way to its trigger control system. It's more than Unit 3 (a budget document consisting of program descriptions and budget benchmarks in the task forces of state institutions) in our country. If (ours) were so detailed, no one could possibly try to 'piggy-back' favors. It's only the research section that is still whole.

Commission III was very interested, so much so that one legislator who at first wanted to question, decided not to. I've been studying this (budget program) for a long time, although I haven't gone to the US yet. Why don't we practice available best practices like that? Everything that is secret here is very open over there.

The previous KPK management wanted to go into detail on budgets. Has that policy changed?

We don't want to go into it. We just want the system to change so that the public is empowered to monitor it as well, so anyone can access it on the Internet, not just the KPK. (After all), we have a limited number (of staff). Take the price of building roads at one point, which costs Rp1 billion per kilometer but at a location nearby, the cost is only Rp600 million. Such open data would be easy to find out.

What is the difference between that system and ours over here? 

(In Indonesia) the decision making is parceled out. For example, road reparations throughout Indonesia (is budgeted) at Rp30 trillion. After it was approved by the DPR in October, the public works ministry set out to divide it among so many regions to determine the kind of work (that needed to be done) and the costs. It required so much paperwork. But if a detailed budget system is used, it can be implemented immediately. So, the delay in budget spending is not because the KPK chases after corruptors, but it's because our system is unprepared. This shouldn't be a reason to resort to discretionary (measures).

What about the discretionary step taken by Jakarta Governor Basuki Tjahaja Purnama over the reclamation project? 

What I highlighted is the additional contribution that should not be arbitrarily applied. It must be included in the regional budget (APBD) first. We must also look into the criteria of using discretionary powers. First, there should be regulations. Then, there will be situations that would allow an irregularity to take place. Take a simple example. A motorist stops at a red light, but because there's a traffic jam, the police can take a discretionary measure and allow the motorist to continue, despite the red light. So, we cannot just say that discretionary (acts) should be criminalized. First, look at the situation or the context. In my view, there should be a force majeure or overmacht (forced conditions) to allow it to happen. Otherwise, follow the rules.

Would the Jakarta governor's discretionary decision to add 15 percent to the cost of reclamation development fall under those two criteria? 

I don't see it. Why should there be discretion over compensation that is not part of the regional budget?

Although he personally does not benefit from it? 

But it benefits other people.

So, he can be legally liable?

You're fishing for an answer. Let's wait how it all develops. (*)

Read the full interview in this week’s edition of Tempo English Magazine