TEMPO.CO, Jakarta - Director of the International Anti-Corruption Academy (IACA) Martin Kreutner has been involved in many anti-graft activities and organizations. In 2000, the Austrian government assigned him to the Police and Anti-Corruption Oversight Unit and to lead a new organization, the Austrian Federal Bureau for Internal Affairs. He led this government body for close to 10 years, becoming the longest person to hold that position.
Today he serves in a number of world anti-corruption agencies, among them the International Association of Anti-Corruption Authorities, the Interpol's International Group of Experts on Corruption. Kreutner is also the anti-corruption consultant to the UN, the European Council and the World Bank.
His newest job is with IACA, a Vienna-based international organization that provides training, education and research to anti-corruption practitioners all over the globe. Indonesia is one among 62 countries and institutions which have signed on to the IACA.
As part of his Asian tour to introduce the academy, Kreutner visited Jakarta last week. He met with officials of the Corruption Eradication Commission (KPK), the Police, the Attorney General's Office and the Justice and Human Rights Ministry.
He also agreed to an interview with Tempo reporters Hermien Y. Kleden, Sadika Hamid and Wibisono Notodirdjo last Friday. Excerpts:
What was result of your meetings with the KPK and other law enforcement organizations in Jakarta?
I renewed our invitation to the government to ratify the IACA agreement. Actually Indonesia has signed the treaty, but it has not been ratified yet by parliament. Ratification would give Indonesia full voting rights in our assembly of parties, which is the ultimate decision making organ of the cabinet. We also invited the KPK to attend a workshop on the second half of this year, to speak on their experiences. We want our students to learn from them.
Are there plans for joint training of investigators, given that the KPK plans to have its own independent investigators?
We are prepared to contribute to the education of investigators in Indonesia or other countries and provide them a forum to share experiences. But where and how those investigators are being institutionally incorporated is the decision of the country. The common denominator is that these investigators should have the necessary independence and resources to do their jobs.
Do you agree that the lack of anti-corruption authorities is the reason why countries with high rates of corruption--including Indonesia, have not gained many breakthroughs?
There are a few people out there, not only in Asia but all over the world, blaming the anti-corruption people, asking why they haven't achieve more. These are the wrong people to blame. What is lacking is political will, resources, more cooperation and so on. So I would be very careful with overly criticizing the ones who are doing the job in the arena. If there are any wrong doings, of course (they are to blame). But please don’t blame them because social change is not happening within seconds, or minutes, or a few months. We all need to be agents of change. In addition, one may have the impression that anti-corruption authorities are intentionally overburdened. They become somebody to blame. Because one cannot say we did everything. The easiest thing is to wash their hands (off the problem).
In your view, is Indonesia on the right track in efforts to eradicate corruption?
Much of Indonesia's efforts in the past have been received positively by the international community. Indonesia set up an anti-corruption commission; it has a strong civil society engagement and a relatively independent media. You have convicted top people in political institutions and in the economic elite sphere. So I think that Indonesia is on the right track. Of course there is always room for improvement. It is not something that any country can stop now. All of us need to keep working.
What is the common thread that can unite the anti-corruption interests of different countries?
There are simple connections on one end and there are concrete ones on the other. We would most likely agree that there is not a single society, state, community and tribe on the globe who would like to live under corruption. I do not know anybody who says "Corruption is great, let's foster it!" Secondly, it has also become common knowledge that corruption is neither a win-win situation, nor is it a petty crime. It is something that concerns the social and economic prosperity of an entire society. I also think in very concrete tangible terms, fighting corruption on a national basis sometimes is not easy, so it is important to network, build alliances, so that you know it is not a lost cause. It is not something that one fights alone, but that there is a growing common understanding on the globe that this is really a big battle.
Kreutner spoke of the reason behind the formation of IACA, the academy's goals, and how it will be able to help Indonesia combat corruption all the way from Vienna. He also gave KPK some tips on how to survive in doing its job; confronting law-enforcement officials and members of parliament.
The complete interview can be found in this week's English edition of Tempo magazine.
